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Obliv0n

Institutional purchases will become a threat?

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It is not a secret that various private firms have bought Bitcoin in the last 6 months, MicroStrategy and square are an example, but none is enough for GreyScale, which today has reported that its investment portfolio exceeds 20 billion dollars in cryptocurrencies.

 

This is an alarming figure, considering that exactly a year ago the amount was 2000 million, this has brought to the debate the fact that GreyScale may be attacking the neutrality and decentralization of the network, since it will buy more btc than that is mined monthly.

 

Some defend this on the basis that it benefits price, but it is small investors and traders who will be affected.

 

What do you think about this new chapter in the history of Bitcoin?

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1 hour ago, Obliv0n said:

 

This is an alarming figure, considering that exactly a year ago the amount was 2000 million, this has brought to the debate the fact that GreyScale may be attacking the neutrality and decentralization of the network, since it will buy more btc than that is mined monthly.

 

Have no fear, Grayscale isn't mining bitcoin and only miners could technically affect the decentralization of btc network. Demand of BTC only affects to the price and when the price grows it attracs more miners, making bitcoin network even more secure.

 

They could technically use their btc to suppress the price but at this point it wouldn't make any sense and SEC would probably throw them in jail for artificial market manipulation.

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I see no threat from institutional investments, at least regarding the centralization of Bitcoin. As far as we know, it does not matter how much Bitcoin they own, there is no chance for them to change the rules of the consensus overall to benefit themselves, as banks do with fiat currency. In my view, the only way they could affect the market somehow is by manipulating the price but this does not necessarily could mean a big threat, as there will always be a big interest from hodlers to buy Bitcoin, especially at low price levels.

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Grayscale made Bitcoin available to institutions. These investors are not buying Bitcoin but a share of Grayscale Bitcoin Trust and the only limitation is a 6 month time required to hold before being able to sell in OTC market. 

Grayscale holds the Bitcoin in custody and this Bitcoin is not going to be moved ever. The Bitcoin in Grayscale custody is something like Paypal did, it doesn't move and not going to give access to anyone. It is a big problem for the ownership distribution of Bitcoin as it is not used in ways many were thinking, and it loses many of the features it has.

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There is no threat to the Bitcoin network, this is the miners and the full nodes that are active and they are decentralized being run in thousands of different locations, what is described here it is some centralized authorities that control a big number of the Bitcoin supply and this is their own will what to do with them.

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It is a new chapter, there wasn't ever before so high interest into Bitcoin coming from institutions, this is remarkable achievement in my opinion and nothing to worry about. Bitcoin can be bought by anyone and if these companies want to use Bitcoin to create stocks and sell them in regulated markets this is even better for us, as this opens the gates of mainstream institutional and regulated adoption, without having to regulate Bitcoin directly.

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In my opinion, whoever affects Bitcoin is the deceivers, so I think if private companies or institutions started storing the Bitcoin currency, this I do not consider it a threat because this means an increase in demand for Bitcoin and thus its price increases according to the law of supply and demand and this leads to an increase in the number of miners and I think that the decentralized network of Bitcoin will not  Affected, small investors are affected when they do not study market movement properly and technically

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A threat to the dollar probably as this is the reason institutions are investing in Bitcoin, the obvious weaknesses of the dollar after an extended quantitative easing by the FED. Although I consider the USA the top economy the problem is that americans still think it is only them moving Bitcoin market and as usual make this big mistake to think they are controlling the market. In fact Bitcoin adoption this year was rising very fast in most places in the world and while the dollar is weakened adoption increased more outside the USA than in that country.

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It is not messing with anything, anybody can buy Bitcoin, I disagree with all custodial wallets and grayscale as well as paypal are just that, but also custodial wallets are Coinbase, Binance and all the centralized exchanges that are used by crypto owners to park their cryptocurrencies there, without caring for the advice we are always giving to hold the private keys.

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On 1/2/2021 at 12:05 PM, rekter said:

They could technically use their btc to suppress the price but at this point it wouldn't make any sense and SEC would probably throw them in jail for artificial market manipulation.

@rekter Well, with that I am calmer, the case of the SEC offers some security, although it can collapse markets as in the case of XRP.

 

I hope this has more positive than negative results for everyone from small investors to private firms that are getting involved in the market.

22 hours ago, yonkii said:

A threat to the dollar probably as this is the reason institutions are investing in Bitcoin, the obvious weaknesses of the dollar after an extended quantitative easing by the FED. Although I consider the USA the top economy the problem is that americans still think it is only them moving Bitcoin market and as usual make this big mistake to think they are controlling the market. In fact Bitcoin adoption this year was rising very fast in most places in the world and while the dollar is weakened adoption increased more outside the USA than in that country.

@yonkii It is interesting that you mention the situation of the dollar due to the actions of the FED. I just created a topic that involves world debt and the possibility of bitcoin as a refuge of the collapse of the dollar, you can visit it if you like, greetings!

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The price was looking it will go higher a lot since months ago as during the summer it was the last of the bears that were exterminated and Bitcoin found its way. Meanwhile we have seen institutions buying Bitcoin massively. The threat you see has to do with more Bitcoin being in custody wallets and services and not used in other ways or held in proper wallets with the private keys by the legal owners. However these owners chosen to have someone else hold the Bitcoin for them. They were not planning to use them for the freedom Bitcoin gives to them. They just invested. I don't see any threat to Bitcoin in that.

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I think that greyscale succeeds to buy all the bitcoin and makes it centralized, we the traders will be at a loss because they might cause many people to become skeptical and leave bitcoin which will lower the price.

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36 minutes ago, cryptovlek said:

The price was looking it will go higher a lot since months ago as during the summer it was the last of the bears that were exterminated and Bitcoin found its way. Meanwhile we have seen institutions buying Bitcoin massively. The threat you see has to do with more Bitcoin being in custody wallets and services and not used in other ways or held in proper wallets with the private keys by the legal owners. However these owners chosen to have someone else hold the Bitcoin for them. They were not planning to use them for the freedom Bitcoin gives to them. They just invested. I don't see any threat to Bitcoin in that.

@cryptovlek I have no problem with the fact that bitcoins are "frozen" in protected wallets, my question is based, so to speak, on what could happen when these institutions decide to liquidate their assets, it is clear that it currently benefits the market but after that, what do we have left? 

greetings😅

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32 minutes ago, Obliv0n said:

@cryptovlek I have no problem with the fact that bitcoins are "frozen" in protected wallets, my question is based, so to speak, on what could happen when these institutions decide to liquidate their assets, it is clear that it currently benefits the market but after that, what do we have left? 

greetings😅

Oh thanks for the explanation friend. About that, there is grayscale where most institutions are buying Bitcoin, but I haven't heard of Grayscale ever selling any. The Bitcoin trust exists for many years since 2013 I think that Grayscale never sold any Bitcoin back to someone. Perhaps some only to cover expenses and take profit but not those that belong to their clients. It gives to the institution a share of their trust alled GBTC. This is what the institutions can sell later at a regulated OTC exchange. But Grayscale won't be buying this share, there is this market where deep pocket investors are trading.

So, it goes like this.

->Grayscale is buying as institutions ask for Bitcoin.

->It holds the Bitcoin forever in its custody and gives a share of the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) to the institution.

->Institutions can trade at OTC (over the counter) exchange. 

This is a legal representation of a Bitcoin. So these institutions can only sell these lets call them stocks. If there is panic selling and they sell all of them, grayscale will still be in custody of all the real Bitcoin that would have just passed hands. In reality the Bitcoins at Grayscale will be frozen forever but virtually they will keep being trading hands in the form of GBTC.

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I think that as an investor it's too good for those kinds of institutions to buy Bitcoin so that the demand increases and, in that way, the price increases as well. Besides, everything seems to indicate that in 2021 there will be more institutional purchases at btc.
Now, as a Bitcoin enthusiast, I think that those kinds of institutional purchases are negative for btc, because large investors have the possibility of manipulating the market and it's not positive that one single company owns a large percentage of the btc currencies. Anyway, we'll see what happens during 2021 with the price of Bitcoin.
 

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22 hours ago, cryptovlek said:

->Grayscale is buying as institutions ask for Bitcoin.

->It holds the Bitcoin forever in its custody and gives a share of the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) to the institution.

->Institutions can trade at OTC (over the counter) exchange. 

This is a legal representation of a Bitcoin. So these institutions can only sell these lets call them stocks. If there is panic selling and they sell all of them, grayscale will still be in custody of all the real Bitcoin that would have just passed hands. In reality the Bitcoins at Grayscale will be frozen forever but virtually they will keep being trading hands in the form of GBTC.

I was unaware of the technicalities behind institutional acquisitions, they are definitely investments orchestrated in a way that does not affect the market, let's hope this fever continues, bitcoin in this bull run is unstoppable!

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The threat in my opinion is only some big bad news that could happen. Bitcoin real volatility is the news of restrictions and regulations. If the US decided to restrict, or increase taxation, or even make KYC mandatory it could be very bad news.

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If the crypto market biggest shares goes in institutes hand then they will manipulate the price. And the small time traders will not gonna make profit because the market follow be in their hands like whales. But this time the whales will be white colour and the financial freedom claims will remain only claims for crypto adopter the centralised system will become strong against decentralised system and people will face same days like fiat economic system in crypto. This is alarming state for crypto community. 

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On 1/5/2021 at 4:25 PM, Obliv0n said:

what could happen when these institutions decide to liquidate their assets,

As I understand Grayscale, it will be impossible for this company to sell the assets back to the crypto market. The reason is it buys Bitcoin and gives something else, a share, to the customers. Then the customers trade these shares, but have no right to the Bitcoins. Grayscale also has no right to move the Bitcoins. It is very difficult for me to understand if this should have been allowed in the first place. It seems there is some kind of gap in the process.

There are these Bitcoins that Grayscale owns, they are worth +20billion. And then there are 20 billion USD in the GBTC assets too. This alone, makes it doubling the assets in existence. I am not so sure how this is allowed by any kind of economic model.

Also  the fact that nobody can sell the Bitcoin but only able to trade the shares makes it even more problematic. Especially for the reason that Bitcoin losses all the features it has this way. It is just for investment and not even able to be moved.

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I am my life in this topic. I cannot prove that there will really be a relationship between cryptocurrencies and financial institutions. also, I cannot say that they seek to disperse everyone and sabotage the network.
Some things if we were not among them we would not know.


Учитесь, учитесь и учитесь на своих ошибках :classic_smile:

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My dear, I see the issue very normal for several institutions to invest in Bitcoin or any other currency, as it is not legally prohibited and everyone has a fan and the spread of tangible wallets. The currency store is an interesting thing, as it has more encryption and it is safe because it is mainly beside you. Thank you very much

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    • Спотовые биткойн-ETF компенсировали апрельские потери в первые две недели мая. Эрик Балчунас, старший аналитик ETF Bloomberg , отметил, что биткойн- ETF уже получили приток $1,3 млрд в мае, компенсируя весь отрицательный приток в апреле, общий приток составил $12,3 млрд с момента запуска.    Аналитик призвал инвесторов не беспокоиться об изменениях в притоках и оттоках капитала, поскольку это часть естественного цикла ETF. Балчунас считает, что спотовые биткойн-ETF по-прежнему будут приносить положительную долгосрочную прибыль.   CryptoQuant отмечает , что восстановление динамики сочетается также с восстановлением спроса на биткоин. Рост баланса Биткойна у постоянных держателей и крупных инвесторов вновь ускоряется, сигнализируя об увеличении спроса на Биткойн со стороны этих участников рынка.   За последнюю неделю приток капитала в спотовые биткойн-ETF восстановился после апрельского спада. По данным SoSo Value , 16 мая в фонды поступило $257,34 млн. Лидером по объему привлеченных средств стал iShares Bitcoin Trust (IBIT) от BlackRock , получивший приток $94 млн. Капитал фонда под управлением достиг $18 млрд, что немного ниже, чем у Grayscale Bitcoin Trust ETF ( GBTC ). Чистый ежедневный приток GBTC составил 5 миллионов долларов США 16 мая, на третий торговый день, когда продукт закрылся в плюсе с момента его преобразования из траста в спотовый ETF.  
    • Сенатор США Синтия Ламмис недавно опубликовала на X сообщение «Биткойн-лазерные глаза», демонстрируя свою поддержку законов, поддерживающих криптовалюту. Этот шаг последовал за принятием закона HJRes. 109 в Сенате, целью которого является отмена Бюллетеня по бухгалтерскому учету персонала (SAB) № 121 Комиссии по ценным бумагам и биржам (SEC).   Сенатор США Синтия Ламмис, представляющая Вайоминг, хорошо известна своей защитой биткойнов. Она рассматривает актив как надежное средство сбережения и защиту от инфляции. Работая в Банковском комитете Сената, она стремится обеспечить соблюдение нормативной базы, которая способствует развитию криптовалютных инноваций и одновременно защищает потребителей.                    Сенат недавно принял закон, направленный на ликвидацию SAB 121, который налагает строгие ограничения на финансовые учреждения, не позволяя им выступать в качестве хранителей цифровых активов, таких как Биткойн. В соответствии с Законом о пересмотре Конгресса, HJRes. 109 направлен на устранение этих барьеров, позволяя регулируемым финансовым фирмам предоставлять депозитарные услуги для криптовалют.   Перед принятием закона сенатор Ламмис заявила о своей поддержке отмены SAB 121. Она осудила его, как правило, замаскированного под руководство по бухгалтерскому учету, разработанное и реализованное сотрудниками SEC без одобрения большинства комиссии. Недавно сенатор Ламмис вместе с сенатором Роном Уайденом от штата Орегон написали письмо генеральному прокурору США Меррику Гарланду, в котором выразили обеспокоенность по поводу предполагаемого расхождения в интерпретации Министерством юстиции правил «перевода денег». Они утверждали, что это отклонение от установленного определения FinCEN может криминализировать фундаментальные аспекты криптосетей, что повлияет на ответственные финансовые инновации в США. Белый дом выразил обеспокоенность по поводу защиты инвесторов Между тем Белый дом четко заявил о своем несогласии с принятым законом. В недавнем заявлении указывалось, что президент Байден наложит вето на законопроект, если он попадет к нему на стол. Он мог бы утверждать , что отмена SAB 121 подорвет усилия SEC по защите инвесторов на рынках криптоактивов и защите финансовой системы в целом.   Критики SAB 121 считают, что это правило является чрезмерным и ограничивает возможности финансовых учреждений удовлетворить растущий спрос на услуги биткойнов. Они утверждают, что эти учреждения с их установленными механизмами соответствия и протоколами безопасности хорошо оснащены для управления рисками, связанными с хранением цифровых активов. Несмотря на одобрение Сената, будущее HJRes. 109 остается неопределенным из-за потенциального президентского вето.   Если президент Байден выполнит свое обещание вето, это остановит прогресс резолюции, сохранив текущие ограничения на хранение цифровых активов финансовыми учреждениями. У Байдена есть возможность подписать законопроект, наложить вето или не предпринимать никаких действий, и в этом случае законопроект станет законом без его подписи.
    • По мнению Ки Юн Джу, на данный момент рыночная капитализация биткоина увеличивается более быстрыми темпами, чем его реализованная капитализация.     Он обратил внимание на тот факт, что подобная тенденция длится не более чем 2 года. Эксперт считает, что при сохранении такой модели развития рынка, можно утверждать, что сейчас биткоин находится как раз в середине бычьего цикла.     Отметим, что сегодня цена биткоина взяла штурмом отметку в $67 000, после чего снизилась до $66800. Очевидно, что для преодоления исторического максимума, достигнутого в марте 2024 года, активу нужны мощные катализаторы роста.     Как указал аналитик, сейчас биткоин демонстрирует устойчивый бычий тренд, который должен продлиться в течение всего этого года и в начале следующего. Сбудется ли прогноз эксперта, однозначно сказать трудно. Действительно, после халвинга стоимость цифрового золота не показывает тенденцию к снижению, но и впечатляющего роста тоже не наблюдается.     Ки Юн Джу и уверен в том, что бычий цикл продолжится ещё почти год, хотя нельзя исключать того, что он закончится раньше, или наоборот продлится несколько лет.
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