Proof-Of-Space - new solution, new problem

[MrSpasybo 1049]

The new cryptocurrency is called Chia, and it was created by Bram Cohen (Chia Network), who is best known for developing the peer-to-peer BitTorrent protocol. As Tom's Hardware reports, Chia uses a proof of space time model rather than Bitcoin's proof of work model. That difference means Chia relies on storage rather than processing performance to mine, and it means a lot less wasted electricity in the process.

Although Chia isn't being traded yet, prospective miners in China are preparing by purchasing as many hard drives and SSDs as they can afford, meaning all 4TB to 18TB drives are in high demand. Pricing is already expected to increase, and ultimately we are probably going to see shortages, unless manufacturers can react quickly enough to keep up. Performance SSDs are already selling out, and manufacturers are set to respond by both restricting sales to miners and increasing production where possible.

 

Source: Chia Cryptocurrency Expected to Cause Hard Drive and SSD Shortages

 

Currently, this Chia project is attracting the attention of the community, especially the miners community. And the Chinese miners community cannot stay out of this race, the same way they were, and are, in the arms race in POW.

 

In the race to serve POW, gamers & designers lost GPU territory, they will lose fortress HDD & SSD ^^
I don't really understand the value of free space in Chiaa's mining system. Free space has no value in Chia's ecosystem, would it be better if miners receive a reward for the space they use to store platform data (software, movies, music...) as GoogleDrive on blockchain.

 

What do you think about this protocol? Will it become popular to replace POW in the future?

[Whited35 15285]

On 4/23/2021 at 6:44 AM, MrSpasybo said:

What do you think about this protocol? Will it become popular to replace POW in the future?

Really, I was not familiar with it. Proof -of-Space, sounds interesting but at its core, I need to check the whole technical aspects behind it. SSDs shortage has already been the major concerns as the ordinary users can not afford to have at least 1TB SSD on their PC. 

If you locate the Laptop from the  popular manufacturers, most of them are pre-loaded with the lower sized SSDs(Say 512GB at least). In order to analyze its future, it's needed to re-check working mechanism. 

[MrSpasybo 1049]

4 hours ago, Whited35 said:

Really, I was not familiar with it. Proof -of-Space, sounds interesting but at its core, I need to check the whole technical aspects behind it. SSDs shortage has already been the major concerns as the ordinary users can not afford to have at least 1TB SSD on their PC. 

If you locate the Laptop from the  popular manufacturers, most of them are pre-loaded with the lower sized SSDs(Say 512GB at least). In order to analyze its future, it's needed to re-check working mechanism. 

@Whited35 Chia said that mining using HDD will consume less power than GPU, but this causes a shortage of HDD & SSD in the computer market. This is the reason why I do not like this consensus protocol, they can absolutely use POS easily instead of having to "invent" a new consensus protocol.
Are the companies behind Chia manufacturing and trading in HDD & SSD?

[selfmade 7]

Proof of space, WOAH! sounds like a smart idea, but does that mean the coin is going to work offline and been kept in Hard drives?

[Ridam 7455]

At first, I would like to thank you for this information about the Chia, which I wasn't aware about yet, and the Proof of space using hard-disk for working seems cool. But how everything will be done? And the major concern is will it be able to match the security level of the POS or at least POW?

I got a lot of confusion regarding this. I mean what are they storing in such big storage device, a blockchain? And I am sure the if miners are using the old school HDD then sure the network performance will goes down and miners would prefer that as the SSD OR MT.2 are way expensive.

Also, I see possibility of monopoly for those who have like Petabytes of storage.

[Whited35 15285]

On 4/25/2021 at 1:16 AM, MrSpasybo said:

@Whited35 Chia said that mining using HDD will consume less power than GPU, but this causes a shortage of HDD & SSD in the computer market. This is the reason why I do not like this consensus protocol, they can absolutely use POS easily instead of having to "invent" a new consensus protocol.

That's why I'm seeking the alternative of the any sort of current blockchain technologies no matter it is PoW based, hybrid or the PoS-based. The main intention has to invent the best solution to fit even to the low bandwidth devices and it could maximize the global adoption trend of the blockchain technology. 

On 4/25/2021 at 1:16 AM, MrSpasybo said:

Are the companies behind Chia manufacturing and trading in HDD & SSD?

I do not think they are manufacturing the  sufficient amounts of HDD & SSD to sell in the market rather they could have been consuming the resources from the existing markets. 

[MrSpasybo 1049]

On 4/25/2021 at 5:29 PM, selfmade said:

Proof of space, WOAH! sounds like a smart idea, but does that mean the coin is going to work offline and been kept in Hard drives?

@selfmade No, coin will still be managed by online blockchain, but instead of sharing block rewards & transaction fees based on the ability to solve the problem (POW) or based on the number of staked coins, the reward will be divided according to hard disk remaining space of miners.

 

On 4/26/2021 at 5:53 AM, Ridam said:

At first, I would like to thank you for this information about the Chia, which I wasn't aware about yet, and the Proof of space using hard-disk for working seems cool. But how everything will be done? And the major concern is will it be able to match the security level of the POS or at least POW?

I got a lot of confusion regarding this. I mean what are they storing in such big storage device, a blockchain? And I am sure the if miners are using the old school HDD then sure the network performance will goes down and miners would prefer that as the SSD OR MT.2 are way expensive.

Also, I see possibility of monopoly for those who have like Petabytes of storage.

@RidamUnfortunately they don't store anything. The reward is divided according to available storage space, not the space used to store data for blockchain.
It's just one form of a way to create a method of sharing rewards for miners: empty space instead of power. CHIA says that this will reduce energy needs of mining process.
And as far as I know: only HDD is used, SSD is more expensive and mining capacity is also less efficient.

On 4/26/2021 at 11:24 AM, Whited35 said:

That's why I'm seeking the alternative of the any sort of current blockchain technologies no matter it is PoW based, hybrid or the PoS-based. The main intention has to invent the best solution to fit even to the low bandwidth devices and it could maximize the global adoption trend of the blockchain technology. 

I do not think they are manufacturing the  sufficient amounts of HDD & SSD to sell in the market rather they could have been consuming the resources from the existing markets. 

@Whited35 I think 5G & 6G technology will help to solve the problem of bandwidth, so the transaction speed and the stability of the blockchain will be maintained without any problems. As far as I know, most master nodes in blockchain are run on servers connected by fiber optic cable, bandwidth is not a big problem.

[Ridam 7455]

8 hours ago, MrSpasybo said:

RidamUnfortunately they don't store anything. The reward is divided according to available storage space, not the space used to store data for blockchain.
It's just one form of a way to create a method of sharing rewards for miners: empty space instead of power. CHIA says that this will reduce energy needs of mining process.
And as far as I know: only HDD is used, SSD is more expensive and mining capacity is also less efficien

Well the tech, seems really fascinating then. I would be checking more about the project a bit later.

If it comes to the energy reduction, and if project is working to do so. Sure I would support the project as someone must take care of the ongoing issue. And if it became sucessfull, with same effectiveness then other may also implement or try to do so.

[Whited35 15285]

10 hours ago, MrSpasybo said:

@Whited35 I think 5G & 6G technology will help to solve the problem of bandwidth, so the transaction speed and the stability of the blockchain will be maintained without any problems. As far as I know, most master nodes in blockchain are run on servers connected by fiber optic cable, bandwidth is not a big problem.

I'm concerning on band-width to solve the case of blockchain overhead and you know technology has to be favorable for any sort of users in all around the world. High speed internet like 5G and 6G will take time to come into existence in so many nations to get them widely adopted so finding the best solution is the main focus now. 

[april1221 303]

On 4/23/2021 at 7:59 AM, MrSpasybo said:

The new cryptocurrency is called Chia, and it was created by Bram Cohen (Chia Network), who is best known for developing the peer-to-peer BitTorrent protocol. As Tom's Hardware reports, Chia uses a proof of space time model rather than Bitcoin's proof of work model. That difference means Chia relies on storage rather than processing performance to mine, and it means a lot less wasted electricity in the process.

Although Chia isn't being traded yet, prospective miners in China are preparing by purchasing as many hard drives and SSDs as they can afford, meaning all 4TB to 18TB drives are in high demand. Pricing is already expected to increase, and ultimately we are probably going to see shortages, unless manufacturers can react quickly enough to keep up. Performance SSDs are already selling out, and manufacturers are set to respond by both restricting sales to miners and increasing production where possible.

 

Source: Chia Cryptocurrency Expected to Cause Hard Drive and SSD Shortages

 

Currently, this Chia project is attracting the attention of the community, especially the miners community. And the Chinese miners community cannot stay out of this race, the same way they were, and are, in the arms race in POW.

 

In the race to serve POW, gamers & designers lost GPU territory, they will lose fortress HDD & SSD ^^
I don't really understand the value of free space in Chiaa's mining system. Free space has no value in Chia's ecosystem, would it be better if miners receive a reward for the space they use to store platform data (software, movies, music...) as GoogleDrive on blockchain.

 

What do you think about this protocol? Will it become popular to replace POW in the future?

To get bitcoin and ethereum, one of my friends also uses mining techniques, namely by making his own server. The server consists of several SSDs and other devices. The payoff is greater than searching for bitcoins from existing crypto websites. However, it requires a lot of capital because you have to buy tools and prepare all your needs.

[MrSpasybo 1049]

On 4/28/2021 at 8:02 AM, Ridam said:

Well the tech, seems really fascinating then. I would be checking more about the project a bit later.

If it comes to the energy reduction, and if project is working to do so. Sure I would support the project as someone must take care of the ongoing issue. And if it became sucessfull, with same effectiveness then other may also implement or try to do so.

@Ridam According to Einstein, energy and matter are just one, CHIA can save electrical energy but create waste in hardware, HDD. I don't count this as a better solution than Proof-Of-Stake. It just created HDD fever.

On 4/28/2021 at 10:48 AM, Whited35 said:

I'm concerning on band-width to solve the case of blockchain overhead and you know technology has to be favorable for any sort of users in all around the world. High speed internet like 5G and 6G will take time to come into existence in so many nations to get them widely adopted so finding the best solution is the main focus now. 

@Whited35 I tagged you in another comment, please check out Mina Protocol project, which involves reducing the size of blockchain data. If this solution is viable, then interacting with blockchain is possible with medium bandwidth.

 

[Ridam 7455]

On 4/28/2021 at 2:35 AM, MrSpasybo said:

And as far as I know: only HDD is used, SSD is more expensive and mining capacity is also less efficient.

Well, I did a research about the whole project in detail. And SSD's are way better at the time of creating plot as the read and write speed of the SSD is many fold higher than the traditional HDD. In the process of creating Plot and saving temporary files before starting the mining process, the software also recommends for SSD. 

7 hours ago, MrSpasybo said:

According to Einstein, energy and matter are just one, CHIA can save electrical energy but create waste in hardware, HDD. I don't count this as a better solution than Proof-Of-Stake. It just created HDD fever.

But this concept is only pragmatic, when we are able to extract the energy from the particular mass. HDD are becoming waste these days because I see everyone are shifting to SSD and now if you go to buy a new PC or build a new one or buy a laptop then you will find that all will have SSD.  Eventually all those old HDD are now becoming futile. So, I think it is better at some extent because CHIA is making the project to utilize those thing so we can consider it as good effort for utilizing those devices.

But now the competition has been raised for that making the shortage of the HDD which seems not fair.

 

[Whited35 15285]

10 hours ago, MrSpasybo said:

@Whited35 I tagged you in another comment, please check out Mina Protocol project, which involves reducing the size of blockchain data. If this solution is viable, then interacting with blockchain is possible with medium bandwidth.

Oh, thanks ! Let me check. I am checking all the quoted posts now. It's been quite tough to get the regular updates regarding the new protocol creations and their depth researches. Once I notice genuine protocol, I check them by considering all the technical aspects that's why it consumes some time.

[MrSpasybo 1049]

11 hours ago, Ridam said:

Well, I did a research about the whole project in detail. And SSD's are way better at the time of creating plot as the read and write speed of the SSD is many fold higher than the traditional HDD. In the process of creating Plot and saving temporary files before starting the mining process, the software also recommends for SSD. 

But this concept is only pragmatic, when we are able to extract the energy from the particular mass. HDD are becoming waste these days because I see everyone are shifting to SSD and now if you go to buy a new PC or build a new one or buy a laptop then you will find that all will have SSD.  Eventually all those old HDD are now becoming futile. So, I think it is better at some extent because CHIA is making the project to utilize those thing so we can consider it as good effort for utilizing those devices.

But now the competition has been raised for that making the shortage of the HDD which seems not fair.

 

@Ridam I'm still using the HDD, and the HDD is still sold in stores, they are not forgotten. Even when the economic situation is difficult, many people want to buy laptop using HDD because of the good price. However, the popularity of CHIA in China has made HDD & SSD more expensive.
Anyway I am not in favor of CHIA's Proof-Of-Space solution as it creates a new scarcity of HDD & SSD instead of GPU.

 

9 hours ago, Whited35 said:

Oh, thanks ! Let me check. I am checking all the quoted posts now. It's been quite tough to get the regular updates regarding the new protocol creations and their depth researches. Once I notice genuine protocol, I check them by considering all the technical aspects that's why it consumes some time.

@Whited35 Super, hope Mina's idea will do something for you & for the future of blockchain technology.

[Whited35 15285]

17 hours ago, MrSpasybo said:

 

@Whited35 Super, hope Mina's idea will do something for you & for the future of blockchain technology.

Unfortunately, I did not find that post about Mina's protocol where you have said I am mentioned there. Care to post the link here so that I will check from. As you know, I have also in this field for innovating the best blockchain based blockchain technology as I'm currently working for DeBots creation with some guys. If I find that protocol is easier to integrate with applications, it would be very nice. 

[MrSpasybo 1049]

11 hours ago, Whited35 said:

Unfortunately, I did not find that post about Mina's protocol where you have said I am mentioned there. Care to post the link here so that I will check from. As you know, I have also in this field for innovating the best blockchain based blockchain technology as I'm currently working for DeBots creation with some guys. If I find that protocol is easier to integrate with applications, it would be very nice. 

@Whited35 Sorry for not providing the link of the MinaProtocol project to you yet. You can check out their website: https://minaprotocol.com/
And Github: https://github.com/MinaProtocol/mina
To me, these things really belong to another world when I can't understand them. I just got the idea and basic advantages of Mina protocol for crypto & blockchain community.

[Whited35 15285]

13 hours ago, MrSpasybo said:

@Whited35 Sorry for not providing the link of the MinaProtocol project to you yet. You can check out their website: https://minaprotocol.com/
And Github: https://github.com/MinaProtocol/mina

No need to say sorry, it's fine 😉! The protocol that I have been searching for a long time. It has size just 22kb and not more than a couple of texts typed in notepad. It will really effective as any sort of users can easily use this to sync the blockchain for the different purposes. 

13 hours ago, MrSpasybo said:

To me, these things really belong to another world when I can't understand them. I just got the idea and basic advantages of Mina protocol for crypto & blockchain community.

No worries, I am currently checking and even my initial impression for this protocol is dramatically positive as it has lightweight to solve the overhead. 

[MrSpasybo 1049]

9 hours ago, Whited35 said:

No need to say sorry, it's fine 😉! The protocol that I have been searching for a long time. It has size just 22kb and not more than a couple of texts typed in notepad. It will really effective as any sort of users can easily use this to sync the blockchain for the different purposes. 

No worries, I am currently checking and even my initial impression for this protocol is dramatically positive as it has lightweight to solve the overhead. 

@Whited35 It's good that MinaProtocol idea can be of help. You know, I'm just an ordinary user, I don't understand the technology but can see their potential. Hope your new Blockchain AI will explode in next Bullrun.

[Whited35 15285]

7 hours ago, MrSpasybo said:

@Whited35 It's good that MinaProtocol idea can be of help. You know, I'm just an ordinary user, I don't understand the technology but can see their potential. Hope your new Blockchain AI will explode in next Bullrun.

In case of creating AI powered blockchain, we are at the initial phase. At least, I am utilizing the night time to enter the codes but in order to create, machine learning and AI powered components to involve into the blockchain's infrastructure, seriously we need so many tech-savvy guys. Hope it will come into existence within a few years. Thanks for your kind words brother. 

[MRashid123 0]

Chia said that mining using HDD would consume less power than GPU, but this creates a shortage of HDD & SSD in the computer industry. This is the reason why I do not like this consensus protocol, they can absolutely use POS easily instead of trying to "invent" a new consensus protocol.
Are the companies behind Chia involved in the production and trading of hard disk drives and solid state drives (HDDs and SSDs)?